Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Out of Cycle Update and it feels, it feels so good to be rugged. So bad.
[00:00:13] I thought it appropriate for a little bit of an educational episode. A 101 for the weekend for you CryptoTalk FM. My name is Leister, I am your host. This is around United States based exchanges because some people in the United States have looked for an exchange and they what they thought they would do is pick one exchange that sounded good for them and then settle on it. The truth is a little bit more challenging. We're gonna get to that.
[00:00:41] But I thought with webot, Pionex Us because I noticed based on the supply now and the charts now in Pionex Us it seems and it's possible that some of those people were listening to Leister CryptoTalks FM did not come back and give him my credit right when I told you this is what it is, you can do it. Because the numbers spiked after I did my upload. All I asked man is you give me my credit. Because some of you, not all of you but some of you believed pathological liars who told you that it wasn't legit and told you it was fake and told you it wasn't the real BDAC coin and told you they weren't listed.
[00:01:22] And then I saw somebody on social media, they sent on a screenshot and it looked like it might been discord that said we never announced being on webot. That's bullshit. There are screens showing that image with the freaking astronaut with the Pionex logo. But they also had sent a tweet saying Pionex US and CEO had the Pionex US girl on the frickin ama that's on video on the annoying Voice Ladies channel on Binance. So no, they did announce that that was going to happen. They're lying and I said they were lying and people didn't believe me. All of a sudden they're believing pathological liars saying it's a scam and those people missed the train of a 10x. That's obvious because if you look at Pionex US's chart it was an easy 10x for anybody that just went after it. Not on your deposited coins, on a new trade, directly in there. However, I learned something about Pioneex US and we bought. I figured I would call to attention first. Let's go high level summary and some disclaimers. I have not touched Binance US because they never responded on the kyc. I don't know why I didn't care because I didn't really. They don't have anything anyway.
[00:02:39] I did not do crypto.com because they forced you to do a mobile. I'm not doing that, brother.
[00:02:44] So I have experience with Robin Hood, I have experience with Fidelity Crypto, I have experience with Kraken, I have experience with Coinbase.
[00:02:53] And now what Pionex Us. So I have a diverse set of experience. Apparently Gate launched a US based something and it turns out that there's a third party.
[00:03:02] They set up money services businesses licenses in the various states and then they delegate an LLC to these from a branding perspective so that you can have a Pioneex US or a Gate US or whatever there's called.
[00:03:17] It's not really the same Gate Org, it's a different org, it's completely different company but it allows them to then transact in the US at a limited basis. So that's what Pionex appears to have done is they went to this third party to set up this LLC to allow them access to the money services businesses licenses that allows them to trade in the United States.
[00:03:37] Now for those that don't understand because you're late to the game, you didn't listen to Leister crypto docs fm, so now you're fomoing because you're late to the game. We bought/Pionex US enabled deposits up to 100,000 BDAG coins. You have to do it, it's manual. You send it to your Ethereum ERC address. They credit you manually, but it can be done that in addition to that they allow withdrawals. I'm going to talk about that here in a second. Buy, sell, trade always has been a thing since they went live.
[00:04:09] Now the thing with Pionex, there are some nuances to their terms and I'm actually chewing them out over this now privately because it's going to help them if they fix it. See Kraken, which is my primary Kraken is pretty straightforward. If you deposit via wire transfer, it's immediately available. There is no restriction on it. There's no restriction on withdrawals, there's no restriction on anything. If you do wire, if you do debit, there's a hold. It's a very limited hold. It's not that long of a hold. It's a very slim hold. It's not that big of a deal if you do ach, there's a hold. It's not that that bad of a hold. In my first video about this fiasco, I called out the one thing I really don't like about we bought/pionex us because it's one of the same. That is their holds. Their holds are extensive. If you do debit card, they are permitted to hold 10 days and for what I can tell, they go the full 10 days. There's a nuance I'll get to in a second. Then if you do wire, there's still a hold. I think it's one to two days.
[00:05:16] So it's a slim hole, but it's still a hole, which is stupid because again, Kraken, there is no such a hole.
[00:05:22] Robinhood, I never bothered going that deep in it because I think it's a crap exchange. So I didn't go that deep. I know Coinbase wire was instantly available, easily withdrawed, whatever, no limitations beyond it. But Coinbase is a terrible exchange that like right now they Show there's like 50 bucks available, but then when you try to withdraw it says there's nothing. So they're a garbage exchange. I don't use them. But they didn't have any sort of restrictions on wire based deposits or crypto based deposits. Kraken does not have any sort of restriction on crypto based deposits or wire based deposits. This is. This I can definitively say we bought has a one little quirk about its hold that is not documented. And that's why I figured I would do this so I can help people that are getting into it for the first time. And it affirms what I said in the first coverage where I said I would not use them as a regular routine exchange. This is what I'm getting at now. It was something I was sensing, but I didn't understand it until I talked to them. I get why they do it and it might actually help their stability to some degree. But I think people need to understand it. And it's not documented on their site. They actually openly admitted this is not documented on the site. It's kind of implied and no it's not. I think that's crap.
[00:06:32] So if you get into Webot/Pionex for the first US for the first time, do not give them any fiat.
[00:06:43] I'm saying for the first time, do not give them fiat. If you're going to go deposit only crypto, that rhymes. If.
[00:06:52] Follow me.
[00:06:54] If you deposit fiat first, they track a balance. So let's say that you. Let's say you do your. And it doesn't even matter. It could be wire, it could be, it doesn't matter. But let's say debit card just for simplicity's sake.
[00:07:06] So there's a 10 day hold.
[00:07:08] Let's say you deposit 200 bucks. There's a 10 day hold. Now if you were to deposit your B dag right now, your B dag isn't really worth much. You would have to have at least $400 worth of it, which is a lot of B dag right now to be able to pull back $200.
[00:07:30] You're like, that's what I'm.
[00:07:33] So the way we bots works is the moment you deposit fiat that is subject to a hold, they now track all balances subject to that hold. So if you deposit fiat it, it's not going to go up and down, right? It's, it's 200 bucks. 200 bucks is 200 bucks. You then trans you didn't do a transaction, you buy some usdt.
[00:07:58] So they're going to take fees and let's say you're left with 199 USDT.
[00:08:03] Okay, that USDT is still subject to a hold. Makes sense. They tell you that part.
[00:08:09] Now let's say you take the usdt, you buy it to some project and it craps, right? And so now it's down to 10 bucks from their perspective. From a balance perspective, you are now in the hole. If it went down to $10, which is extreme, but I'm just giving you some visual so you can kind of picture it. You're now in the hole. $189, you're in the hole.
[00:08:32] If you put your B dag in there and let's say you'd be that like right now a realistic number for most people. You're realistic, let's say it's a hundred dollars, you would not be able to withdraw that B dag.
[00:08:46] You can't withdraw it back out. So once it's in there, you can't withdraw back out. Because now what it's doing is it's trying to contribute to your balance so it would offset your negative. The only time you would be able to withdraw then outside of the hold. So we're talking separate from the hold. I'll get back to the hold. I'm talking outside the hold is that BDAG would have to go to profit to where now you're above the balance and then you can cash out that overage.
[00:09:13] They're basically saying if you give us $200 worth of money, your balance account balance has to stay that $200. However the balance got there, whether it's fiat, whether it's crypto, that is not documented on their site. But that's how they do it.
[00:09:31] If your crypto goes to profit, you can take the profit excess, they'll let you withdraw that all day long, but you still have to keep your fundamental balance for the duration of whatever hold.
[00:09:42] Where and why does this affect people? This affects people most notably if you don't use wire or if you don't, or let's say you use the extreme one, which is ach, which is 60 days, which is nuts. It's absolutely BS if you use that and it's 60 days, whatever money you put in there has now created a balance. Think of it like a credit balance, like a secured card credit.
[00:10:07] That money has to stay there and it's now the equivalent of extra. Everything you do, whether it's crypto, whether it's fiat, it doesn't matter.
[00:10:15] Other exchanges don't work that way. Other exchanges, if I deposit 200 USDT, I can immediately withdraw that you $200 USDT irrespective of whatever other fiat I deposited. They don't track it as single balance, they track it as separate balance, separate wallet, separate things.
[00:10:33] So my summary for you, if you choose to get into Webot, Pioneex us, make sure that you are separating it in your mind.
[00:10:44] It does not work the same way as all the other US exchanges do.
[00:10:49] They're doing it as a balance. It's like a secured card type balance concept. You have to maintain a certain balance, however you got there.
[00:10:58] Unless you only deposit crypto from scratch. This is the test. If anybody out there that's thinking of doing it because you're trying to get out of BDAG or you're trying to get at least some value out of it.
[00:11:10] Don't deposit fiat, set up the account. And I'm not telling you to do it, I'm saying if you're going to.
[00:11:15] This is what I would recommend because I'm curious to test my theory. If you set up an account, you'd go to the kyc.
[00:11:22] Don't give them any fiat, just deposit crypto. Do a test. Deposit small amount of B dag, right, which is sent to your theory rc then go to the send crypto, which is the withdrawal and see if the amount that you put in there minus fees, is available to immediately withdraw. Because if it is, that's what's, that's what they're saying is okay. As long as you only give us crypto, you're fair game. Because we don't put a hold on crypto. Only the time we put a hold is the moment you give us Fiat, any fiat.
[00:11:54] If there's a hold on that fiat, the hold applies to your whole balance, including crypto. That will throw people. So I'm doing this episode so people understand that nuance. Again, I think they're doing it because they're trying to increase their stability and stop certain volatility for actual fee, you know, because they use the fiat as for to support their own liquidity. I get the concept of it. I don't have a problem with it other than the fact it's not documented on their site. That's what I'm chewing them out about. It's not the fact that they do it.
[00:12:27] They can do what they want to do. I'm saying you need to document it on your site. Clearly that this is the case. You can't tell people crypto has no hold when the truth is it does have a hold. If you had a fiat deposit that had a hold, you're. You're lumping them together.
[00:12:43] That's not clear on your site. And you need to clarify that on your site because you're going to get in trouble if you don't. So I'm having that conversation with them because I'm trying to help them understand this is a very important nuance for people because they might think they need to put some fiat in there only to find out that it's trapped. Not because of anything other than the payment method they chose, which you do tell them. But then all of a sudden all these other cryptos that are crapping because bitcoin's crapping now, they're going to think you're a scammer because you're holding back assets only because they lost value that they couldn't control.
[00:13:18] That's the summary. We bought Pionex us. I again, I called it out before that I wasn't a fan of their holds. I think the holds are bullshit. They straight up are. I'm curious though. If you only go in with crypto, is the whole moot? It's it. Is it a non issue where they don't have any hold whatsoever? If you only did crypto, then what I would recommend, which goes back to what I set up with the jump, always have at least two exchanges that you are signed up on to negate this kind of stuff when you learn that it's the case. Because in my case, if I were to do it over again, I would have just gone to Kraken, done a straight buy with wire, because I always wire to Kraken, done a straight buy to wire to Kraken then do a transfer of the crypto from Kraken straight to webot and then deposited the B dag and then everything presumably would have been withdrawal capable.
[00:14:08] It doesn't matter. It's throw away money and so. So it doesn't hurt me. I just wanted people to be clear. They work differently than every other US exchange that at least I'm exposed to. Crypto.com may work that way, but I don't think they do because again Robinhood certainly does not. Coinbase does not. Kraken does not. Gate did not. LBank does not. Bitmart does not. Hotbit did not. Like I've, I've gone through countless exchanges. Even frickin coint Garbage doesn't like. Some of these lesser ones don't do it this way.
[00:14:37] I understand, but I'm just clarifying, the other ones don't work that way. So they should put it on their site that they choose to work that way. Then they're fine and hopefully they heed my advice. I get the sense that they won't do it. In closing, I would call out that their support. There's two tiers of support. The chat and then they have a ticketing system. You can't hit the ticketing system directly. The chat is a different organization of people.
[00:15:01] It's the same org, but I'm saying it's a different group of people.
[00:15:04] I'm going to give you feedback that I think their, their support is garbage, frankly. Not that they're not responsive. You can get a response, you can get a human, but I think their support is garbage. I think they're garbage people.
[00:15:16] They're combative, they're defensive because in their mind we can do it, this is what it is, we told you. And they don't understand the nuance that what they told is not 100% the truth.
[00:15:27] It's a nuance that they're not understanding why it matters. It matters because if people don't put. They're assuming people do one or the other. You just do fiat and then it's whatever because we told you there's a hold. Or you only do crypto and then there's no hold. They're not tracking the people that might do both. Which is a logical use case. If you had somebody that went in fiat, bought some project, then had some crypto, you transfer it in there because you saw it's good. That's a logical use case. If you chose to use a debit card, because that's what they promote.
[00:15:56] Okay, now you're subject to a hold. You know that the debit card deposits on hold. You wouldn't expect the crypto to be that a logical person wouldn't expect these things. That's what I'm trying to get them to understand. You got to just document it on the site. That's it. Update your just one line at the bottom that says the moment you deposit fiat, that becomes your balance. That balance covers anything else you do, including crypto. So there may be a hold put on your crypto if your balance starts to go beneath.
[00:16:25] That's all you got to do and cover your ass. That's all I'm saying. So I still don't have any negatives on it as an exchange other than as I said before and I maintain do not. I wouldn't recommend using them as a recurrent.
[00:16:37] I would. Kraken's the one I primarily recommend. They've significantly improved.
[00:16:43] The interface is slower, but generally speaking they've improved. I think Coinbase is garbage. I think Robin Hood is a scam in my opinion.
[00:16:51] I've not used crypto Com. I've not had a chance to check gate IO's US based and Binance US didn't bother responding on KYC so they don't get the business. But I've had zero problems with Kraken so far. So Kraken would be the one I would recommend if somebody wanted a US based exchange at this point.
